The Republican Lies

I used to consider myself a republican, I used to even defend Bush when my then Canadian Compatriot, now my wife, used to blast Bush.

I was a republican because I believe in personal responsibility and accountability. I don’t believe in hand outs, big government or even affirmative action. I believe in opportunity.

In the past eight years I have seen our country fall economically and felt it first hand. Credit card companies and banking institutions started to suck people dry with carrot deals that many fell pray to. I don’t know how people can ignore the term predatory loans or Credit Card companies APR that doubled and tripled, not because of a missed payment to them, but a whole list of reasons that even when inaccurate cannot be reversed.

As a country we attacked the middle class and made it harder and harder for them to exist. The country of opportunities did not look like it anymore. With the republicans in power the size and reach of the government grew and grew and most of my fellow republicans started to justify all of the moves that contradicted the basic ideologies of the party.

When Katrina happened I was deeply saddened. I even mentioned Obama back then as someone that was speaking the truth very clearly. The land where I used to think there was no absolute poverty showed its ugly face.

During my professional career I have worked for a lot of Health Care institutions, sometimes in the technical realm and also as a translator and interpreter. I had the opportunity to learn not just about how the hospitals work, but also about the insurance companies. I also know what the percentage of what is done there has to do with money vs actual patient well being.

I am deeply sadden when I know that one of the big battle flags against illegal immigration is that “they” are “sucking” our health system dry, when the reality is that every uninsured American is a huge burden to those institution’s bottom line. Health care is not just about going to a place to die like it used to be 50 years ago, it is about preventative care and a better standard of living. However, as a society we are failing to a large percentage of the population, to the point that aide groups that used to go to third world countries to provide free health care are now doing it here.

Hearing all of the speeches against Obama have made me ask myself, “Why aren’t these people proposing solutions but rather trying to attack what the other candidate is proposing?” The one that irks me the most is about taxing the rich, which to me is people that make over $250K a year, but to MacCain is anyone that makes 5mil or more. I hear the excuses to support not taxing the rich and laugh, especially the line that someone says that they will take their money elsewhere. Last time I checked, most companies had been shipping jobs overseas more and more in the last eight years than ever before, and their money is also long gone.

If you are a republican, please listen carefully to the candidates and make your own conclusions without the spin. Give Obama and what he is proposing a good look. Vote for our future and not for a party.

50 Responses to The Republican Lies

  1. Logtar – Glad you finally came to your senses! LOL! You said “I was a republican because I believe in personal responsibility and accountability. I don’t believe in hand outs, big government or even affirmative action. I believe in opportunity.”

    A very fine American attitude. Democrats believe in all of those things too. But they also believe in social justice. Something completely alien to the Republicans.

    Democrats (or Progressives in general) think that it is a social INjustice for any citizen of the richest nation this planet has ever seen to go hungry, to go without healthcare, to be homeless.

    A society that allows this to happen when it has the means to prevent it is barbaric. They cannot claim the mantle of civilization.

    Thus spake XO (actually, it was a whole lot of people way smarter than me going back thousands of years, but still.)

  2. I know Im not going to change your mind, but here it goes. The so called rich the top 3% are allready paying 90% of the tax bill. At some point people will quit working when the government takes more than half of what they earn. The biggest things squeezing the middle class now are fuel prices and health care. The democrats have fought new drilling and nueclear plants, I haven’t yet heard barack come up with any other plan. If its there enlighten me please. The biggest problem with health care is the cost are so high because of frivelous law suits drive up the cost of malpractice insurance. Neither canidate is planing on fixing this as far as I know, but having the rich float the bill for the poor isnt fixing the problem. I think everyone should have health care even if they can pay for it, but fix the problem dont shift the bills around.

    Here is the tax situation so even the layman can understand.

    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh would pay $7.
    The eighth would pay $12.
    The ninth would pay $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

    So, that’s what they decided to do.

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. “Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

    The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
    The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

    “I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”

    “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”

    “That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

    “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

    For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

  3. I am OK with that if you acknowledge that for every Republican Lie there is a Democratic Counter-Lie. For example: “…it is a social INjustice for any citizen of the richest nation this planet has ever seen to go hungry, to go without healthcare, to be homeless.” So in the richest nation in the world anyasshole should be taken care of just because he happened to be born here? what about working, paying taxes, getting education,etc? is that now voluntary? just because it sounds good and feels good, it doesn’t mean it should be implemented in real life UNLESS people who choose to support this idea (i.e. XO) pay for it out of their own pocket and stay out of mine.

  4. markl – here is another way of looking at your somewhat ridiculous scenario.

    The first 8 men worked extremely long hours to make the 9th and 10th men rich.

    They missed family dinners. They missed their children’s plays, football games, debates and concerts.

    They didn’t take vacation. Or they took their company laptop and cell phone on vacation with them.

    In dedication to their employers, they deprived their families of their comfort and support in the promise a better future.

    As a result, the ninth man and the tenth man become fabulously wealthy, only have to “work” a few hours a day writing memos to minions delegating their duties to others, spend most of their time playing golf, attending $1000.00 a plate fundraisers for politicians, eating fois gras, drinking champagne, and influencing public policy that only affect the first 8 guys, while taking special care to exempt the 9th and 10th guys.

    After many years, the jobs of the first 8 guys are shipped overseas to peasants anxious to do it at a fraction of the cost, the first 8 guys lose their jobs, their homes and their families, while 9 and 10 get richer and richer.

    I’d say that the very least that the 9th and 10th man can do is continue to pay for a few frakking beers.

    I think they can afford it and I know they are morally obligated to supply it.

    If you build your wealth on the back of other people’s sweat and labor, you have a moral obligation to ensure that they don’t suffer while you succeed.

    If the 9th and 10th men won’t meet their moral obligation to those that made them rich, then it is the duty of the societal structure that made their success possible to redistribute some of that wealth to ensure social justice.

    Innovation, risk and success should be rewarded.

    Hard work, dedication and sacrifice in support of those goals should also be rewarded.

    I don’t know if it is still in place or not, but Ben and Jerry’s used to have pay model that I thought was just.

    It said that the highest paid executive could not make more than 100% more than the lowest paid employee.

    So not only was there a reasonable, codified executive/employee salary ratio structure, but if the executives wanted to vote themselves a raise, everyone below them got an automatic raise.

    That seems to be a model that rewards risk and innovation, while equally rewarding the hard work of the front line employees that make that risk and innovation possible.

    Logtar – Sorry to hijack your post. But I’m passionate about this subject. Especially in an election year.

  5. The only thing you forgot to mention is that as long as men 9 and 10 have more money than men 1-8, they will never be satisfied or happy and will be coming back for more until their money is equalized. Ben and Jerry fulfilled their moral obligation through their foundation which received 7.5% of the company’s pre-tax income. They also participate in various charities. According to XO we have to go and kick them in the nuts some more and take some more of their money because their voluntary and tax contributions are not a “fair share”.

  6. So your saying the 9th and 10th guy should pay a bunch more taxes so the rest can get there stuff for free. What is the incentive for anyone starting a business then. This may work in the short term, but when there is zero incentive for anyone to start an business, because you wont be making more than your employees, business will disapear. We own a small business, and had to put our cars and house on the line. After ten years we are now reaping the benefits, and I think we are due some rewards. I will agree that ceo salaries are way out of whack, and should be based more on performance.

  7. The point that I have on the “social INjustice for any citizen of the richest nation this planet has ever seen to go hungry, to go without healthcare, to be homeless. A society that allows this to happen when it has the means to prevent it is barbaric.” is that in my opinion it is not the government’s job! Going along with meesha, there is an element of personal responsibility and the COMMUNITY needs to take care of a lot of these issues, NOT the government. If someone falls on hard times, then their family, their church or their community should rally around to help them. Not to mention that our nation is also the most giving nation on earth as well and the injustices you have listed: hunger and homelessness are often addressed by charities.

    As far as business and taxes go, it sounds like the argument here is about people being dirtbags and that the government should stop them from being so. The person that invests all their money, starts a business, becomes successful and provides jobs to people, still has the right to do what they want. It is called Freedom. Not all people look at the bottom line for every decision they make and have money as their only goal.

  8. My reply will be on my blog (laters). Don’t wanna waste space here! =D

  9. I have no problem with people making money, I love the idea of capitalism. However, even in your analogy 60 bucks to a man that has a salary of over 1 mil is no big deal. 20 to a man that makes 40 is a big deal. That whole explanation means nothing without how much they make.

    As far as the taking the money overseas, it is an empty argument because you CAN move assets somewhere else, however making money overseas is A LOT harder than it is here.

    As far as the community argument… I think it has some legs, however in a country where a communities are very small in the sense that you take care of your own it does not work. It is always poorly executed.

    I am not sure why the world social justice is so negative to some. I guess when you have never seen poverty, true poverty, it becomes a lot easier to ignore it… and honestly I thought I would never see true poverty in the US and Katrina burst that bubble.

  10. The notion that the most productive members of society will stop working if their incomes are heavily taxed is demonstrably false. Take a look at the tax rates under Eisenhower compared to economic growth for an example. The rate for earnings over 3 million a year was something along the lines of 91%. It didn’t promote laziness, it encouraged reinvestment.

  11. I’ll digress on posting my thoughts on the “Lies” Republicans tell on my blog…no point really, once you get into the area of passion topics like this as well as Religion or lack-thereof, Abortion etc it becomes muddled.

    I will say I disagree nearly 99% of what Log posted on this topic. The 1% where I agree? Voting for our future not for a party.

  12. Its an analogy, its not about the beers or how much they make.

    I love how you twist the numbers to make your point. The man making 40 dollars wouldnt be paying any taxes, which is why we have tax brackets and why the rich pay most of the tax bill.

  13. I work at a place where everybody makes exactly the same amount of money. Eventually productivity evens out around the lowest common denominator. That’s one local example of “social justice”. For some time you work because it’s fun, or your parents brought you up that way, or jesus told you to do so. Eventually you realize that the guy next to you is picking his nose all day for the same pay. It takes some people longer than others but eventually it gets to you. You stop seeing the point in doing your own job and someone else’s without ANY recognition and/or incentive. Extrapolate this concept to the state level. People get tired of supporting other people who are not shy about sitting on the government payroll.
    To Burrow: it’s not the tax rate that stops people from working, most of successful people take risks at one point or another. Student loan is a risk, opening a business is a risk. You take it hoping for it to pay off. If you take the money incentive away what do you leave the person with -satisfaction with the “job well done”? 70 years of the USSR existence prove that this doesn’t work.

  14. I guess the whole economy thing is just pointless to even debate because everyone is so polarized.

    I am sorry Mark if you feel that I am twisting things, but any diatribe that ends with a statement questioning intelligence because you do not see an analogy as an accurate representation of how our tax system works to me is just argument bait rather than debate or even trying to explain anything. I postulated my point of view on why I have changed who I would vote for and what party I affiliate with, I felt that I have been lied to. This is also only a sliver of why, there are many other reasons, but some too personal to discuss here.

    I still believe that the republican party lies the moment that they say they stand for LESS government and there is A LOT more government now meddling on everything we do, than there was 8 years ago. And not all of it is related to 9/11… anyone care to refute that?

  15. I wasnt questioning your intellegence and you know that. You were the one that took it out of being an anaolgy and were putting numbers to it. I am in total agreement that government is too big, and if bush could run again I would have a hard time voting for him. Like you I wont be posting anymore, because Im not going to change anyones mind. I still consider you my friend. My Evil Evil socialist friend.

  16. That is the beauty of this country, we can have totally different ways of thinking and living and we can still be friends. I know you would not question my intelligence, we both know who the genius is!

    *The comment before is a total inside joke, and actually neither of us is the Genius.

    Mark M <> Mark L but they are both in Michigan which makes most of their points mute.

    Mark M is not the Genius either.

    Mark L should change his nickname to Nutsy the squirrel permanently.

    Ok, done for now.

  17. No way! I am not THE genius, are you kidding me? You have to be revered as a living IT demigod to be THE genius =P

    OK, Log, back at it then! You said,
    “I still believe that the republican party lies the moment that they say they stand for LESS government and there is A LOT more government now meddling on everything we do, than there was 8 years ago. And not all of it is related to 9/11… anyone care to refute that?”

    Here is the problem. Both parties lie, not because the parties lie, but because some “members” of those parties are all about getting elected and having power rather than having the chance to better the country. This is not a Democrat/Republican thing. What exasperates me is that some people think that “the Democrats/Republicans are going to save us”. That is why I will never say, “I’m a XYZ party”. Log, you are correct, the Republicans are SUPPOSE to be for small government (ever listen to a Reagan speech) and personal responsibility and all that. Those things are the party platform. It doesn’t mean that all such labeled Republicans actually believe in that, same for Democrats of course. So, although I am not refuting the evidence you bring (it is true), I am refuting the title you put for this topic, “The Republican Lies”. Unless of course, tomorrow’s topic is going to be “The Democrat Lies”. =)

  18. Point taken Mark… they do all LIE… I guess a more accurate title would have been, I believed the Republican Lies…

    The democratic party has never really impressed me before, I would never vote for Jesse Jackson if he ran for president… I like this Obama dude for a while, I am going to vote for the candidate, not the party.

    I believe he can change this country, I believe he will bring progress, I believe that he will be a great thing for the country… if in 4 years I am wrong, I guess I will have to live with the consequences of being lied to again by another politician, but if I am proven right, I feel like I will be part of history in a small way.

  19. Are you really that naive Log about Politicians and America?

  20. Of course dude :) am very one dimensional and make blanket statements with no background knowledge on the topics whatsoever!

    In all seriousness I do not know a lot about the political process here in the U.S. probably more than your average American, but not as much as I should as a voter.

    I have debated my ideas with people from both sides and more knowledgeable in politics than I am. Obama IS a politician, I know that, but what he is selling sounds good. What the Republican Party is selling right now I do not want to buy…

    Travis has probably known me the longest and knows the most about my political views, but Mark L and I have talked politics before as friends…

    My Dad was never very political, he voted but there was never political discussion at home. Most of what I have learned has been from either classes, reading or discussions with other people… so in a way I think I can be considered naive. If you have any idea as to how to remove that label I am all ears.

    Bush showed me that he was part of the good old boy club, for the same reasons I did not like the idea of Hilary, I see MacCain and his ticket as more of the same. A party that still has Karl Rove pulling strings is to me more dangerous that anything else that Obama has in his nefarious plan, at least its someone new.

  21. I’ll help ya out a bit.

    1. D’ and R’s are ONE and the same, has been for over 20 years.

    2. The HOUSE controls Laws and Reg. NOT the sitting President, yes he can VETO but the real power is the HOUSE/SENATE. – of which has been controlled by the DEMS for a few years now…

    3. Katrina and it’s collateral damage had nothing to do with BUSH. It was a bunch of ill prepared local/state government posturing (democrats) and power plays that stiffled the relief/evac efforts. Our Government is to blame for lack of forethought and it’s own policies for getting things done, would have happened with ANY party being in office. ** The riots, looting, murder, rape, fires we’re caused by thugs. Those who perished had plenty of advanced warning to GTFO of Nawlins.

    4. The mantra of blaming the rich and over-taxing is 100% bull-caca. Without the RICH this society would be nothing. XO’s comment about moral obligation??? WTF is that? Whose moral obligations? Yours? Societies? If so..whose to say what baseline MORALS are we to use. If you over tax the rich they leave. Business shut down. You lose your job. Good luck with your ideals on blaming the rich and making them over-pay their fair share. You are bordering on Socialism…what would be the incentive for ANYONE to improve their lives if they have to give a majority of it to those who don’t WANT to take control of their own lives. Where does it end?

    5. Yes, Illegal Immigrants are DRAINING our resources. Your answer is to socialize healthcare? LOL. Do you see the irony in that? Illegals should go thru our already established laws and quit milking the US of A.

    6. Comments on Economy, it’s CYCLICAL. The current gas, food and inflation happened in the 70′s. Our economy will always have it’s ups and downs and it’s NOT based on whose in Office. In reference to the Credit Card Companies and Mortgage lenders…you blame Republicans?? Where does one actually take responsibility for their own actions? Those who have lost their houses or deep in debt was 100% based on they’re choices. Republicans didn’t force them to sign on the dotted lines. They made the choice to live beyond their own means. Yet you and others who say they want ‘small government’ wants the US taxpayers and Government to bail them out….

    other tidbits.

    Jesse Jackson DID run for President.

    It’s spelled McCain…not MacCain.

    Karl Rove is a TV analyst now. What strings are you referring to?

    Obama is simply a well spoken, mild mannered politician with a tan. He’s no different than any other before him. He too is a good ol’ boi….

    On a lighter note– you gonna hit level 68 this weekend?

  22. 1. Agreed – Obama however I feel is full of new blood.

    2. November 8, 2006, but with a Republican in the White House which is why I want a Democrat in power to get some stuff done.

    3. ALL TO DO WITH BUSH – See FEMA – See which one of his cronies was caught sleep at the wheel. We can argue for hours, but I do give you that people should have left and furthermore people should not rebuild there.

    4. The rich in this country have been screwing the poor and erasing the middle class systematically. It stops when we cannot afford $10 a gallon anymore and people are going to be starving.

    5. I honestly don’t understand how you can say they are milking the economy when most of them pay taxes that they never collect. I wrote a long time ago of what my solution to this problem is(type ‘why illegal immigrants come to America in google’), and Obamas plan actually mirrors what I said funny enough. My comment was simply that Illegals are not to blame for people not having access to healthcare.

    6. There is a good investigative report as to how recent legislation (by the republicans in the house) affected how banks and credit cards work. Legislation allowed for a lot of the things that happened with our banks, sure some of it is personal responsibility but there used to be a lot of safeguards that were removed by the republicans, that is why I blame them.

    other tidbits.

    Jesse Jackson DID run for President.
    And I was not able to vote at the time and would have never voted for him because I find him to be a buffon.

    It’s spelled McCain…not MacCain.
    Whatevs

    Karl Rove is a TV analyst now. What strings are you referring to?
    His machine is still part of the republican party to the point that the speeches this week were done by his people. I picture the cartel organizational chart in my head but I don’t know everyone by name. He is still part of the party and very much an idea guy.

    Obama is simply a well spoken, mild mannered politician with a tan. He’s no different than any other before him. He too is a good ol’ boi….
    I think to say what you just said above is naive.

    On a lighter note– you gonna hit level 68 this weekend?
    I would love to. Sat and Sun morning I will be on. :)

  23. @meesha: nice straw man you got there. McCain isn’t proposing we even the tax code to a flat percentage for one and all. Obama is not proposing federally-enforced equal outcome. Both are proposing tax cuts for 95%+ of all working Americans, Obama is proposing to pick up some of the slack by taking a little more from the people in a best position to cough up some extra money. 70 years of Soviet mismanagement has no bearing on this conversation and you still don’t count because you don’t vote.

    @Wookieluv: lern 2 english, plox. You may have some good points, but your abuse of apostrophes makes it difficult to read. All I got out of it was “politicians == bad.”

  24. it has nothing to do with Soviet mismanagement;my point was that people need a real incentive to do better, you take it away (by taxing) then why even bother. 95% of working people don’t pay much as it is. My effective tax rate (per TaxCut) is something like 12%. I am actually OK with that. It’s what they do with my money that pisses me off.

  25. @meesha:
    [...]my point was that people need a real incentive to do better, you take it away (by taxing) then why even bother[...]
    …and nobody is proposing to take away those incentives, so what you were getting at aside from constructing a bogeyman to poke at?

  26. Wow 26+ posts.. I think you hit a nerve there Log. ;)

  27. How is taking away even more money from the rich not taking away incentive?

  28. Geez, I leave you chuckleheads alone for a few hours and you tear up the playroom!

    I’m 53 years old. I don’t have time for a comment by comment rebuttal. I’d be dead before I researched all of the facts.

    So I’ll just respond to the most recent comment…

    Markl – Personally, I don’t think that reducing a person from being able to afford 8 homes to only being able to afford 7 homes is removing all that much incentive.

    In fact, by your logic, wouldn’t that incent them to create even more wealth and more jobs so they could get that all-important 8th home?

    I’ll leave you with these two pearls of wisdom.

    Republicans only want LESS government when it comes to regulating business. Don’t get between a hustler and his money. If he wants to sell snake oil or run a 3 card Monty game on the sidewalk, he should be allowed to run his business without Big Gubbmint interfering.

    It’s in YOUR bedroom and YOUR family and YOUR personal life that they favor Big Gubbmint. YOU can’t decide who to have sex with. YOU can’t decide whether to reproduce. YOU can’t decide that you don’t want your child exposed to religious goon-babble in public schools.

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.

  29. Oh, one more observation.

    A democrat looks at half a glass of water and see’s a glass that is half full.

    A republican looks at the same glass and yells “WHO DRANK HALF MY WATER?! I’LL KILL YA!”

  30. @markl: When the top marginal rate was 91% did our industrial leaders hang up their hats and go home? No, they didn’t. And nobody’s even suggesting that we go back to anything that severe; I’m just pointing out that more aggressive tax regimes than those currently proposed did not tank our economy. You’re poking at straw men.

  31. Nice post: hilarious bunch of comments.

  32. I actually went to school too so you can’t scare me with a straw man. I looked up 91% tax rate for myself, it was a tax rate on incomes over $400,000, if you had income of $750,000/yr which is now equivalent to $5 million, the effective tax rate was about 52%. So now it’s in 30′s – it didn’t go down 300% which is what I thought after reading your reply. I’ll throw a slippery slope in: people will never be happy until there are rich, they will be coming back for more until they will tax them out of existence, then what? You always hear about fair share but you never hear what it is, because they know it will have to change.

  33. Damn you boys are wordy!

  34. @meesha: Yes, 52% is about right for somebody making $750,000 in 1954. For 2007 somebody making $5,000,000 paid (just straight by the tax table here) a hair over 34%. The argument I was refuting was that increasing taxes right now would remove the incentive of people to perform, work, innovate, whatever. In the past, the taxes paid by people that were doing very well (I think we can all agree that $750,000 was a pretty nice pay check in the 50′s) did not prevent them from doing all these things. The common sense argument doesn’t hold up in light of what actually happened.

    As for people not being happy until everybody’s as poor as they are, you’re assuming that broke-ass people with crappy jobs will ever be happy. That’s just silly hippy talk. I’m not talking about what’s fair, just what’s practical. It’s cheaper to fund after-school programs and provide job training than it is to house people in prisons, but neither of these are free so the money has to come from somewhere.

  35. I’m sorry that you have been so let down by one political party to feel the need to switch to another. I hope for your sake the one you have chosen will do right by the American people. I think they’re all corrupt and will never fix anything past their own reflection. It’s hard to be a politician and would never wish it on anyone.

  36. tl;dr

    Instead, here’s a post about McCain called “John McCain: Throwing the Working Class Under a Bus”

    http://www.bobboblog.org/bobbo-50

  37. Yahoo did a decent job with a fact check on some of the points that have been presented over the last week.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check

  38. I refuse to comment, which given this topic, is incredibly difficult to me. I love you as a brother and am wise enough not to talk religion or politics in these situations.

  39. You have no idea how hard it is for me not to lay into this post. Actually, you probably do know how hard it is for me…

  40. Come on travis do it. Youll feel better.
    Or just frustrated.

  41. @Amanda: I’ve been liking Factcheck.org this campaign season. They’ve been good about going after both sides when lies, half-truths, or bullshit have surfaced.
    @Travis: do it. Be a man. Jump in. Logtar can take it.

  42. You have no idea how hard it is for me not to lay into this post. Actually, you probably do know how hard it is for me…

    QFE

  43. Markl,

    The problem is, you are an intelligent person and so am I. John is also very intelligent. I don’t know why he is so damaged now and I really don’t have anything to attribute to it. Unfortunately, it is a lost cause. It doesn’t matter how obvious the facts are to you and me, you simply cannot convince the other side. Unfortunately, John has fallen victim to that side. I can only hope that someday he realizes this. Maybe it is something he needs to figure out for himself. And helping yourself is the Republican way.

  44. Anyway, John is clearly confused. I can only accept his statement that he isn’t as informed as a voter as he should be and that he doesn’t completely understand American politics. This is fair to an extent and I have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    What makes this country great is that anybody has the freedom to express their ideas openly. I am very passionate and informed about politics, which clearly gives me an unfair advantage in this situation.

    Unfortunately, a lot of this has to do with personal feelings and less to do with supportive information. And once feelings overtake logic, it is hard to convince the person otherwise. All I can do is be optimistic for my friend.

  45. I did not want to go there, but dude, Travis, you are a conservative atheist! < -oxymoron! ;)

  46. I’ll take the high road and resist the name calling. Afterall, it’s what the defeated eventually fall back on. ;-)

  47. Like calling someone a celebrity?

  48. Yes, Obama’s 146 days in Congress are a big qualifier for the highest office in the land. He lacks experience, has socialist leanings and wants to raise taxes. Raising taxes doesn’t produce more revenue. Three times in history, taxes have been lowered and revenues have increased. Twice it was done by Republicans, once by a Democrat.

    I can’t and won’t vote for Obama.

  49. @michael: I think you dropped your facts somewhere. Here you go (treasury department PDF).

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