Nice guys finish last

I might catch a lot of heat for this post, but it really needs to be said. Being a nice guy is sometimes very counterproductive when applied to our society. I am so tired of so many nice people I know getting the worse end of the deal over and over.

I am a nice guy by nature, but I can turn the other way really quickly. I had to learn how because I kept on getting taken advantage of. What bothers me the most is when people take nice for weak.

One of my good friends is getting literally abused a work. Chastised in front of clients (I have experienced that in the past), taken for granted (even though he is the biggest biller for the company), and worse of all being made the scape goat (the main reason why I left the last company I was with.)

The other situation is how nice guys have such a hard time dating. The good, responsible guys are constantly being overlooked for the bad boys. If you are nice and accommodating you are thought of as a wimp, but if you are a jerk woman just come in droves. And it is not just maturity, I`ve had friend of all ages being ignored just because they are just too nice. The flip side of that is that many woman are still in abusive relationships and make excuses for those people that mistreat them.

So is this world for the jerks? Are they the ones that are the leaders of the pack and deserve the attention? What do you guys think?

22 Responses to Nice guys finish last

  1. Dude, you are so right on with this post. I don’t see the people that try to think of others first instead of themselves as getting any of the same treatment in return. Nice seems to translate as meek or weak like you say and others can pick up on that and take advantage of it. I know far too many women who complain how this boyfriend or whatever treats them like crap when they met the guy in a bar and he was acting like a loudmouthed A-Hole to someone. Then they are surprised when they get treated the same way. When the whole time right in front of them were numerous guys who would have treated them like a queen. Taste me, am I bitter?? =P Sorry, just seen it happen way too many times to me and other friends of mine as well. Of course, who do they women usually complain to that will listen??? The nice guys. OK, I think I feel better now =)

  2. Nice people have no backbone. There is a difference between a good person with a backbone and a ‘nice guy’. A huge difference. No one wants a doormat, they get walked all over.

    You don’t have to be a jerk to be a good person with a backbone, either. At least not all the time.

    If you can’t stand up for yourself, no one will. And the real jerks shouldn’t be allowed to get away with their crap.

  3. Another problem is that a lot of nice guys act too needy around women. For the most part, women don’t like men who act needy.

  4. “Nice guy” is not a positive title in this society. I try very hard to be a good guy, but I am only as nice as my options.

    Lemme put it another way, it is OK to be respectful and polite. It is OK to care about others. But when the people you are dealing with become difficult, sometimes you need to let em now you won’t be fucked with.

    Unfortunately it is easy to go to far, because success is addictive. If being a little aggressive is good, sometimes people think being reallllly pushy is better, and they become the jerks we have talked about.

    It’s a delicate line to walk. In the end given my choice, Id rather be thought of as a wuss than an asshole.

  5. Women like certain jerks and get ‘droves’ of women because they have confidence which in some cases is misunderstood as being a jerk/egotistical/cocky. Nice guys have confidence (don’t get me wrong but they focus more one real stuff– not just getting laid)….

    Forgive my assumptions ladies…but…. they also want to feel protected even if that means the guy is a jerk. They don’t feel protected when the guy is nice all the time, they want mischief and crave excitement, most “nice guys” are very predictable, boring and lack that certain “aura”. I’m not talking about the abusive (physical or mental) jerk as that’s something entirely different.

    Too much to post here..lol…..but yeah…nice guys do finish last with most women but who wants to be with someone if they don’t love YOU? Fuck em (the women who want to be with REAL Jerks and not you).

  6. btw LOG. You may say your not a nice guy…and granted we’re all not nice to some degree….but you are a very friendly, cool kat who beams with being NICE.

    And that’s a good thing.

  7. If you’re really nice, why? Is it because you want to be liked? Or is it because you like how being nice makes you feel? If it’s the former, I would challenge whether you should really be nice and, instead, be yourself. If you are or would like to be the latter, just let go of the outcome. Be nice and notice just how wonderful it makes you feel and delight in the fact you have figured out one of the secrets of the universe.

  8. I’m too shy to respond to this post.. instead read my post on lonly loosers:

    http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=97655781&blogID=423451669

  9. I think it speaks more to the ladies than anything – at all the low self-esteem that’s out there. Women go for the jerks because they don’t think they can do any better. Also, and not to be Freudian, but look at the fathers….and their friends. If a girl was brought up a certain way, then they think that’s ok. My dad was a huge asshole, controlling and an alcoholic. My first husband was controlling…it didn’t take a genius to figure out I’d married my father without consciously realizing it. This time around, I’ve met one of those nice guys. He’s strong, determined, and can hold his own in any argument, but is gentle. He would say he’s arrogant, and to a degree, I agree. But I know what I want to deal with, and I know that nice doesn’t mean sap. Many women don’t. Our fault.

  10. I think as far as dating goes, some women aren’t ready to date nice guys. They like the drama that the bad boys bring to the table. But when those women are finally ready to settle down, they usually ending up wanting a nice guy.

  11. Um, a lot of so-called and self-proclaimed “nice guys” have very high standards when it comes to the kind of women they want to date. So while they might say, “I’m a nice guy! Why don’t women want to date me?” a lot of them tend to mean, “Why won’t beautiful, level 7 or above women who are thin and considered attractive by societal norms date me?” I met a few of those types throughout my many years of dating. One of them wound up being a very good friend of mine after we initially met and the sparks didn’t fly (for him…).

    He didn’t come to my wedding. I don’t think it was for any reason other than the fact that he can’t believe that a woman like me was able to find a mate, and a guy like him still can’t find even semi-long term relationship. I think he resents me because even though I’m what he considers sub-par when it comes to attractiveness, etc…, I was able to get married.

    Just one example of many, many experiences I’ve had with “nice guys” throughout the years…

  12. Faith, not to burst your bubble or anything, but that guy does not sound like a nice guy at all.

    Being shallow is not a quality that I would associate with a nice guy. Thankfully I do not have that gene that predisposes me to find what a magazine portrays as “beautiful” attractive… to me its a whole package of kind of deal, and chemistry above just looks.

    If the guy did not go to your wedding because he thinks compatibility is based only on a number scale, he is not just not nice, he is obviously an idiot too.

  13. You’re absolutely right on this one, Logtar. That’s why I make it a practice to sucker punch a total stranger daily.

  14. A nice guy can still stand up for himself and be a nice guy. Any man who can’t stand up for himself has no business standing up for a woman.

    Sometimes though, with confidence comes cockiness. It’s sometimes hard to balance one’s ego and be humble. Sometimes I can’t fit my head thru the door and act like a jackass. But overall, I consider myself a nice guy.

  15. I dated the occasional “bad guy,” but nothing can replace the “good guys” I’ve had and still have in my life.

  16. Logtar, no bubble burst here: that’s exactly what I’m saying. A lot of guys who THINK they’re nice as they can be are actually more judgemental and shallow than they realize.

    Check out this post from my Twin for a more recent, specific example: http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/experiment.html

    And this was the follow up post she wrote about what happened: http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/little-clearing-up.html

    Maybe those help you see what I’m talking about a bit better…

  17. Ok, your blog ate my last comment…

    Basically, I said that you didn’t burst any bubble…you missed my point, I think.

    There are a lot of guys out there who think they’re nice. My sister recently communicated with one of them via a Craigslist ad in Orange County. Here are the links to what she said about it:

    http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/experiment.html

    http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/little-clearing-up.html

    I know a few of them in real life. I’d give examples, but I’m afraid it would be too rude.

  18. Why the HELL will this post not accept my comments??? GAH!

  19. Ok, it took that last one. What’s going on here?

    Ok, your blog ate my last comment…

    Basically, I said that you didn’t burst any bubble…you missed my point, I think.

    There are a lot of guys out there who think they’re nice. My sister recently communicated with one of them via a Craigslist ad in Orange County. I’ve tried putting in the links to the posts, but I think it’s what’s messing up my ability to comment. So check out June 12th and 13th on her blog (“How Do You Say” in my blogroll) for the story.

    I know a few of them in real life. I’d give examples, but I’m afraid it would be too rude.

  20. Janet brings up a good point in that there are too many nice guys that won’t stand up for themselves.

    I like the nice guys and always have, but it’s not my fault that they also tend to go after the jerk women ;)

  21. LT, I do think that this society is too focused on glitz and bravado to understand subtle nuances and quiet determination; it glorifies boisterous stars, and assumes that the silent types are oddities, outliers or outcasts.

    We do come from a culture that values silence and contemplation, and thus we are understood through stereotypical categorization and labeling. However, once that narrow perception is broken, we do emerge more prepared than what the local culture would have allowed.

    Similarly, place the debate in terms different from “nice”, and allow the whole deluge of your reasons to impact the other. There is not nice, there is a cautious expectation and a judicious choice of battles.

  22. Let’s not sit around and avoid the real issue here. The reason that women don’t like nice guys is because women aren’t nice. The reason women love bad boys is because women are bad.

    See how simple that was? Wait, you think I made that up?

    It’s easy to express nothing but scorn for those guys who follow women around like lost puppies, cater to their every need, offer their shoulder to cry on, but then sit in amazement when the object of their affection turns around and dates everyone but them. We laugh at them for being spineless and weak. But the women involved in this equation deserve nothing but contempt.

    Why? I thought you’d never ask. It’s not like the women here are blind to what the guy is hoping for. Yes, he’s naive for thinking that women appreciate courtesy. We all know they don’t. But women, if you have a guy like this in your life, for the love of god, cut him loose, tell him that you’re not going to be with him because bad people can’t be with good ones, and let him get on with his life. Better yet, instead of laughing at him and using him as your emotional crutch, tell him where he’s coming up short and let him try to improve himself so that he has a chance with someone else.

    But women don’t do that. They want this little emotional slave around all the time. They want someone to listen to their whiny, girly nonsense. Women are bad people, so the fact that they only live other bad people is a matter of common sense.

    I was there once. As a younger man, I was the nice guy, and I was genuinely so. I actually cared, and I paid a serious price for it. After a time, my emotions circled the drain, and I was happy to let them go. I knew that sitting around and feeling sorry for myself is the act of a spineless jellyfish, so that sure wasn’t an option. I because a full-blown jerk whose attitude towards women eventually turned into misogyny. I am neither proud nor ashamed to admit that I despise women and I treat them accordingly, and guess what? My success with them has increased dramatically.

    Treat women like garbage and they will come running. Now admittedly, some have told me that I morally and ethically backslid just to get women to notice me, and you know something? I did, and I’m glad I did. There is no room left in this world for gentlemen. I am not going to sit alone in a dark corner just because someone out there thinks I should tie myself down to meaningless, outdated ethics.

    The reason that I feel no shame about treating women with such contempt is because women deserve nothing but contempt. Besides, treat women that way and they’ll love you for it. Both you and she will get what you want.

    If you women out there are about to start throwing words like “chauvanist” or the like in my face, spare me. I don’t care, and you women are the cause of that. Don’t like it? Look in the mirror. Maybe you should stop complaining about men unless you intend to start showing better taste in them.

    We know you’re not going to do that, don’t we?

    Again, women like bad boys for a simple reason that everyone of us knows at his core…all women are bad.

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