I might catch a lot of heat for this post, but it really needs to be said. Being a nice guy is sometimes very counterproductive when applied to our society. I am so tired of so many nice people I know getting the worse end of the deal over and over.
I am a nice guy by nature, but I can turn the other way really quickly. I had to learn how because I kept on getting taken advantage of. What bothers me the most is when people take nice for weak.
One of my good friends is getting literally abused a work. Chastised in front of clients (I have experienced that in the past), taken for granted (even though he is the biggest biller for the company), and worse of all being made the scape goat (the main reason why I left the last company I was with.)
The other situation is how nice guys have such a hard time dating. The good, responsible guys are constantly being overlooked for the bad boys. If you are nice and accommodating you are thought of as a wimp, but if you are a jerk woman just come in droves. And it is not just maturity, I`ve had friend of all ages being ignored just because they are just too nice. The flip side of that is that many woman are still in abusive relationships and make excuses for those people that mistreat them.
So is this world for the jerks? Are they the ones that are the leaders of the pack and deserve the attention? What do you guys think?
12 Aug 08
Dude, you are so right on with this post. I don’t see the people that try to think of others first instead of themselves as getting any of the same treatment in return. Nice seems to translate as meek or weak like you say and others can pick up on that and take advantage of it. I know far too many women who complain how this boyfriend or whatever treats them like crap when they met the guy in a bar and he was acting like a loudmouthed A-Hole to someone. Then they are surprised when they get treated the same way. When the whole time right in front of them were numerous guys who would have treated them like a queen. Taste me, am I bitter?? =P Sorry, just seen it happen way too many times to me and other friends of mine as well. Of course, who do they women usually complain to that will listen??? The nice guys. OK, I think I feel better now =)
12 Aug 08
Nice people have no backbone. There is a difference between a good person with a backbone and a ‘nice guy’. A huge difference. No one wants a doormat, they get walked all over.
You don’t have to be a jerk to be a good person with a backbone, either. At least not all the time.
If you can’t stand up for yourself, no one will. And the real jerks shouldn’t be allowed to get away with their crap.
12 Aug 08
Another problem is that a lot of nice guys act too needy around women. For the most part, women don’t like men who act needy.
12 Aug 08
“Nice guy” is not a positive title in this society. I try very hard to be a good guy, but I am only as nice as my options.
Lemme put it another way, it is OK to be respectful and polite. It is OK to care about others. But when the people you are dealing with become difficult, sometimes you need to let em now you won’t be fucked with.
Unfortunately it is easy to go to far, because success is addictive. If being a little aggressive is good, sometimes people think being reallllly pushy is better, and they become the jerks we have talked about.
It’s a delicate line to walk. In the end given my choice, Id rather be thought of as a wuss than an asshole.
12 Aug 08
Women like certain jerks and get ‘droves’ of women because they have confidence which in some cases is misunderstood as being a jerk/egotistical/cocky. Nice guys have confidence (don’t get me wrong but they focus more one real stuff– not just getting laid)….
Forgive my assumptions ladies…but…. they also want to feel protected even if that means the guy is a jerk. They don’t feel protected when the guy is nice all the time, they want mischief and crave excitement, most “nice guys” are very predictable, boring and lack that certain “aura”. I’m not talking about the abusive (physical or mental) jerk as that’s something entirely different.
Too much to post here..lol…..but yeah…nice guys do finish last with most women but who wants to be with someone if they don’t love YOU? Fuck em (the women who want to be with REAL Jerks and not you).
12 Aug 08
btw LOG. You may say your not a nice guy…and granted we’re all not nice to some degree….but you are a very friendly, cool kat who beams with being NICE.
And that’s a good thing.
12 Aug 08
If you’re really nice, why? Is it because you want to be liked? Or is it because you like how being nice makes you feel? If it’s the former, I would challenge whether you should really be nice and, instead, be yourself. If you are or would like to be the latter, just let go of the outcome. Be nice and notice just how wonderful it makes you feel and delight in the fact you have figured out one of the secrets of the universe.
12 Aug 08
I’m too shy to respond to this post.. instead read my post on lonly loosers:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=97655781&blogID=423451669
12 Aug 08
I think it speaks more to the ladies than anything - at all the low self-esteem that’s out there. Women go for the jerks because they don’t think they can do any better. Also, and not to be Freudian, but look at the fathers….and their friends. If a girl was brought up a certain way, then they think that’s ok. My dad was a huge asshole, controlling and an alcoholic. My first husband was controlling…it didn’t take a genius to figure out I’d married my father without consciously realizing it. This time around, I’ve met one of those nice guys. He’s strong, determined, and can hold his own in any argument, but is gentle. He would say he’s arrogant, and to a degree, I agree. But I know what I want to deal with, and I know that nice doesn’t mean sap. Many women don’t. Our fault.
13 Aug 08
I think as far as dating goes, some women aren’t ready to date nice guys. They like the drama that the bad boys bring to the table. But when those women are finally ready to settle down, they usually ending up wanting a nice guy.
14 Aug 08
Um, a lot of so-called and self-proclaimed “nice guys” have very high standards when it comes to the kind of women they want to date. So while they might say, “I’m a nice guy! Why don’t women want to date me?” a lot of them tend to mean, “Why won’t beautiful, level 7 or above women who are thin and considered attractive by societal norms date me?” I met a few of those types throughout my many years of dating. One of them wound up being a very good friend of mine after we initially met and the sparks didn’t fly (for him…).
He didn’t come to my wedding. I don’t think it was for any reason other than the fact that he can’t believe that a woman like me was able to find a mate, and a guy like him still can’t find even semi-long term relationship. I think he resents me because even though I’m what he considers sub-par when it comes to attractiveness, etc…, I was able to get married.
Just one example of many, many experiences I’ve had with “nice guys” throughout the years…
14 Aug 08
Faith, not to burst your bubble or anything, but that guy does not sound like a nice guy at all.
Being shallow is not a quality that I would associate with a nice guy. Thankfully I do not have that gene that predisposes me to find what a magazine portrays as “beautiful” attractive… to me its a whole package of kind of deal, and chemistry above just looks.
If the guy did not go to your wedding because he thinks compatibility is based only on a number scale, he is not just not nice, he is obviously an idiot too.
14 Aug 08
You’re absolutely right on this one, Logtar. That’s why I make it a practice to sucker punch a total stranger daily.
14 Aug 08
A nice guy can still stand up for himself and be a nice guy. Any man who can’t stand up for himself has no business standing up for a woman.
Sometimes though, with confidence comes cockiness. It’s sometimes hard to balance one’s ego and be humble. Sometimes I can’t fit my head thru the door and act like a jackass. But overall, I consider myself a nice guy.
14 Aug 08
I dated the occasional “bad guy,” but nothing can replace the “good guys” I’ve had and still have in my life.
15 Aug 08
Logtar, no bubble burst here: that’s exactly what I’m saying. A lot of guys who THINK they’re nice as they can be are actually more judgemental and shallow than they realize.
Check out this post from my Twin for a more recent, specific example: http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/experiment.html
And this was the follow up post she wrote about what happened: http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/little-clearing-up.html
Maybe those help you see what I’m talking about a bit better…
15 Aug 08
Ok, your blog ate my last comment…
Basically, I said that you didn’t burst any bubble…you missed my point, I think.
There are a lot of guys out there who think they’re nice. My sister recently communicated with one of them via a Craigslist ad in Orange County. Here are the links to what she said about it:
http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/experiment.html
http://howdoyousay.blogspot.com/2008/06/little-clearing-up.html
I know a few of them in real life. I’d give examples, but I’m afraid it would be too rude.
15 Aug 08
Why the HELL will this post not accept my comments??? GAH!
15 Aug 08
Ok, it took that last one. What’s going on here?
Ok, your blog ate my last comment…
Basically, I said that you didn’t burst any bubble…you missed my point, I think.
There are a lot of guys out there who think they’re nice. My sister recently communicated with one of them via a Craigslist ad in Orange County. I’ve tried putting in the links to the posts, but I think it’s what’s messing up my ability to comment. So check out June 12th and 13th on her blog (”How Do You Say” in my blogroll) for the story.
I know a few of them in real life. I’d give examples, but I’m afraid it would be too rude.
22 Aug 08
Janet brings up a good point in that there are too many nice guys that won’t stand up for themselves.
I like the nice guys and always have, but it’s not my fault that they also tend to go after the jerk women
27 Aug 08
LT, I do think that this society is too focused on glitz and bravado to understand subtle nuances and quiet determination; it glorifies boisterous stars, and assumes that the silent types are oddities, outliers or outcasts.
We do come from a culture that values silence and contemplation, and thus we are understood through stereotypical categorization and labeling. However, once that narrow perception is broken, we do emerge more prepared than what the local culture would have allowed.
Similarly, place the debate in terms different from “nice”, and allow the whole deluge of your reasons to impact the other. There is not nice, there is a cautious expectation and a judicious choice of battles.